GM's Bob Lutz says Pontiac, Buick are on a Path to Recovery

Another interesting quote from Maximum Bob in today's news.

I know that Pontiac is looking a lot better as a brand these past few years. The Solstice, upcoming G8, and even some of the existing cars like the G6 Convertible are very appealing to me and those I work with who aren't GM fans.

But Buick? Well, Bob has the best idea of GM's plans for that withering brand, but I don't see any kind of recovery coming. Aside from the looks of the Enclave (which has a reskin-twin right on the lots next to it...the Acadia), the brand has very little going for it, and nothing in the future product pipeline that I've heard of that really changes the game for them. Another Epsilon-platform variant will not save Buick. And from what I can tell that's where GM is putting its Buick eggs-in-a-basket. If the Enclave doesn't do stellar sales, then all they have is a Mercury-style Chevy Malibu reskin?

That's not enough.

But who knows, maybe I'll wake up some day and Buick and Mercury will be the biggest brands in the U.S. market, and people will rave over the classy & conservative restyling of mechanical clones of cheaper Fords and Chevies. And Buick's market share and relevance will skyrocket.

Maybe pigs will fly, too.

Personally, I prefer my suggestion of an American-market Daewoo-built Buick. That's a new game plan, not the same old one from 1995.

Lutz: GM brands on mend
2 years after calling Buick and Pontiac damaged, he says there are signs of life
April 7, 2007
BY JUSTIN HYDE
FREE PRESS WASHINGTON STAFF
General Motors Corp.'s Buick and Pontiac brands are no longer "damaged," according to Vice Chairman Bob Lutz -- but they're still years away from full vitality.

Two years ago, Lutz created a stir at the New York auto show when he called Buick and Pontiac "damaged brands" and warned that GM would have to consider killing one or both if trends did not reverse.

"They're still not where we'd like them to be, but the vital signs have at least turned up," Lutz said in an interview with the Free Press. Reviving them is "going to be a gradual process that will take another five to six years."

Detroit's GM Fans Have no Daewoo-built Buick on their Radar

Recently I've posted quite a bit on my favorite car forum regarding my desire to see Buick import an Excelle or a Tosca as a Buick to combat the steep 40% decline in Buick sales in the USA.

GM fans at GMInsidenews.com will have none of it.

Narrow thinking, in my opinion has lead to the problems Buick is having as a brand. Buick has more than a few opportunities around the globe to bolster its product portfolio, but is stuck with styling duds like the Terraza, and clone cars of other traditional GM brands already offered sometimes in the Pontiac dealership next door.

In the last few years that Buick has dropped like a rock in sales, Suzuki has risen at least that much on the back of GM Daewoo product sales, specifically the Forenza, sold as a Buick in China and Taiwan.

The GMI guys generally hate my suggestion, mostly due to the "Daewoo-Stigma" I expect that they have, but I think its worth restating the option when GM fans spout that "there is no other choice, they're doing the best that they can, Buick can only reskin Chevies and Pontiacs and hope for the best with new styling".

A radical change could help Buick, if only GM were brave enough to give up the silver-haired set mentality and give an entry level car from GMDAT a try. Certainly it couldn't HURT sales. And image? You've got to be kidding me. People around my workplace consider the new Hyundai Azera to be a better car than "A stodgy old Buick".

It would indeed be able come out of "thin air" because the products have already been sold by Suzuki here in the USA, and countries like Australia and Canada seem to have no problem importing the Epica.

The best of Buick's offerings now is a reskin of the GMC sold in the showroom next door at BPG dealerships (Enclave). And all it really offers is better (subjective) styling.

And from the responses to my idea, my guess is that most people at GMI just want more reskinned Epsilon(II) s, Lambdas for Buick.

Formula: reskin, rehash, QuietTune, and hope it sells along with 5 other stablemates. Like the Rainier. Or Terraza. Or LaCrosse. Such HUGE hits...(sarcasm intended)

Its a stale, dated 1980's GM-style approach to selling cars that might have worked once, but not since that little thing called the 

Internet caught on.  And Buick deserves to fail if that's all GM (and its fans) can come up with - more reskins of mechanical quintuplets of every new platform GM North America makes.

More tired excuses, or action and revitalization and a Buick that really attracts younger people with value-packed pricing? The best "entry lux" cars that Daewoo can offer, or a continued slide in sales with promises that newer, better styling alone will save the day with a reskinning and heavy chroming of less expensive models, essentially a Mercury-like (gussied up Fords available at the dealer across the street) strategy?

We'll have to wait and see.

Photo above: Taiwanese Buick Excelle (Forenza/Lacetti-based)

A Truly Global GM

I wrote this yesterday for GMInsidenews.com, please feel free to comment:

The Truly Global GM: One and a Half Years Later

And How having "too many" brands can be an asset

Commentary by Ming

www.gminsidenews.com

2/6/07

Back in September of 2005 I wrote a commentary here at GMInsidenews titled " Should a Truly Global GM Replace North American GM Brand Cars? ". With over 12,000 views, it spawned some excellent debate by our passionate members at the time, and even bled over into some other news forums and blogs.

I still think that a strong GM needs to be a "Global" GM. Not because I endorse some kind of Globalism that robs U.S. workers of their jobs, but because the best of GM's competition thinks globally and competes globally. Toyota doesn't let the fact that Scions and Lexuses are not produced in the U.S.A. interfere with selling them here. They don't make a practice of holding back great product from the North American market because of Union agreements or internal politics. They don't endlessly debate about "what the American consumer wants" before introducing cars like those in its Scion lineup --- cars that many predicted would fail for being "too Japanese".

Now, one and a half years later, I feel that GM is due some praise for the steps it has taken to make its U.S. lineup reflect the best of what it offers overseas. I honestly never would have thought that within two years GM would be offering a mildly restyled Holden Commodore as the Pontiac G8, or the Opel Astra as a Saturn. I had asked for it, but I did not expect it.

If one believes that GM is still a lumbering dinosaur unable to move quickly to adapt, then it would be logical to assume that GM already had these plans in the works or was deep in discussion with its subsidiaries regarding importing these cars before I had written my commentary. I'm not so full of hubris to assume that my article on this one forum out in a sea of automotive internet sites might have spurred these plans on. But that doesn't mean I don't want to congratulate GM for what it has decided to do, nonetheless.

The Saturn Astra, from the press photos we've seen, looks superb. Projector headlamps, 3 and 5-door styling (not some sedan with a tiny trunk) and as-is styling elements all over? Not one bit of apparent "blanderization" by the beancounters in Detroit looking to make a buck or two by stripping parts away that they think we might not notice? Wow.

The Pontiac G8, with a bold, masculine grille and edgy styling unlike the rumored Solstice front end swap? I've long felt that the as-introduced 2004 GTO's biggest problem was its 1990's "bubble" and swoopy styling. None of that in this new G8. It's modern and sharp-looking and is the first Pontiac that I've really wanted to own since my 2000 Bonneville SSEi. And this is thanks mostly to Holden. Detroit could have over-reacted to the lackluster debut of the last GTO and gone hog wild with some kind of bizarre restyle of the front end to avoid people saying "GM didn't do enough to make it look like a Pontiac". But common sense won the day, and the experts at GM realized that the new Commodore looks mighty handsome as it is, and didn't need extra ribbing or swoopy curves. Again, wow.

Many point out that GM has too many brands in the U.S. to support with enough unique models. It was the 1980's all over again when GM announced it would make the Crossover Sport Vans for no less than 4 of its U.S. brands, and the major difference between them would be slightly different grilles. We all know how that went down.

But having many brands can be an asset. How? Each of the traditional rebadged, re-grilled and or "reskinned" brands in the U.S. - lets face it, Pontiac fans, you know what brand I'm referring to - need not be a lineup of Chevy USA clones with different styling to some degree but otherwise mechanically identical (Torrent, SV6, G5). While it might be difficult to make the transition to "Holden USA", Pontiac, for example, could benefit from a unique to the U.S. market lineup for the first time in decades. No longer would you be able to get the same basic car with different styling down the road for less at the volume discount Chevy dealer or next door in the Buick showroom. As of now, the only Pontiac products that aren't some level of reskin or rebadge are the Vibe, and its a Toyota-engineered product with Toyota manufactured parts. Of course the "on hiatus" GTO, and the G6 Coupe/Convertible, which is unique.

To sum it up: the North American market-only brands that demand too much in the way of resources to keep competitive and unique can rely on very different models from overseas instead of just more styling variations of the same cars for each brand.

It shouldn't stop with the Astra and G8. To give an expired example, instead of a 4th CSV (Relay), Saturn could have waited and gone with the Opel Zafira instead.On the flip side of my article was an urging for GM to export more from Detroit. U.S. built Cadillacs are sold in Europe, Korea and China. But perhaps even more importantly, Detroit-engineered vehicles like the HUMMER H3 and Cadillac SLS (long wheelbase STS) are to be produced in more overseas locations, such as South Africa and China. This kind of development is vital for Detroit to remain a hub of engineering prowess. GM should encourage the global strength of Opel, Holden and GM Daewoo, but shouldn't rely on them completely and outsource all engineering to them. Toyota keeps the heart of its engineering at home, and Detroit's GM headquarters shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that they can outsource everything and just manage their hard-working global subsidiaries from their armchairs in Michigan.

Again, GM should be praised for these efforts. "American" cars and trucks sold and built overseas indicate to people around the world that Detroit-based GM is a global player and still very relevant despite the withering attack on its market share by Japanese automakers at its home of operations.

So what's left for me to ask for?

For one thing, GM is still not making full use of its GM Daewoo subsidiary in the U.S. market. Rather than yet another Epsilon-based reskin, a brand like Buick could use an entry-lux car in the form of the Daewoo Tosca, for instance. If its good enough to be Holden's Camry fighter, then its good enough for Buick, which sorely needs an injection of young, professional, bargain-hunting buyers who also want crisp, modern styling - not just an aging model with heavy rebates, or something they could buy from a Chevrolet dealer but with "Quiet Tuning" and a tri-shield badge. The kind who flock to Korean cars like the Hyundai Azera for the long list of built-in features and current styling elements. This is where the Daewoo-built Tosca beats 1996 Riviera-styled LaCrosse as Buick's entry-level car. That doesn't mean a car the size of the LaCrosse has no place in Buick's lineup. It's just that the current model is not designed in a way that effectively lures younger buyers to the brand, from a styling or pricing standpoint. Suzuki no longer sells the previous version (Verona) so that exclusive agreement, if it ever existed, should not stand in the way.

We saw the Aveo take the subcompact market by storm a couple of years ago and rise to the top. In an increasingly competitive market, GM Daewoo can deliver a high level of standard equipment for a low price, and modern, frequently refreshed styling. GM Daewoo is simply more nimble and able to invest in its much smaller product line than GM in Detroit (which recently decided it wasn't "worth it" to dedicate resources give the Cobalt a mid-cycle refresh, for instance), and can help keep GM North America's car offerings more diverse and fresh looking than what Detroit's GM can do alone.

Astra, Commodore (and Ute?), and Tosca (or next-gen Lacetti). These cars represent some of the best offerings from GM's global subsidiaries, and I look forward to seeing all of them here.But for now, let me just congratulate GM for making the steps needed to integrate its various disparate brands around the world into the highly competitive U.S. market where they can help GM stand against the relentless onslaught of Toyota, Honda, Nissan and others.

Cheers to our mates in Australia and Germany for designing the great looking, competitive cars we'll come to know as Saturns and Pontiacs!And maybe, just maybe what we'll see next will be a single model Chinese LaCrosse displacing the W/G-Body U.S. Buick LaCrosse and Lucerne, with a Daewoo Tosca / Holden Epica at the low-end "entry lux" for volume sales wearing a Buick badge as they do in China, a market where Buick is highly respected. Or a Holden Statesman replacing the Lucerne.

Thread with member comments at GMInsidenews.com: http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44515

Restyle the Holden VE Commodore? What is Pontiac (GM) Thinking?

Photo: Will Pontiac's Ugly Styling Beast Rear its Head Again?

News has leaked that Pontiac's upcoming "G8" RWD sedan will not keep the Commodore VE front end, but will instead have the styling of a Solstice from the A-pillar forward.

The Holden VE Commodore has a very techy/sharp look. The Solstice is more of a rounded homage to a 1950's Porsche.

Personally I hate the idea. GM Execs are no doubt worried about people who said that they didn't do enough in Detroit to change the former imported GTO from the Monaro. What they just don't seem to get is that the Monaro's bubbly 1990's styling was one of the reasons many people hated the look, NOT the fact that it was little changed from the Monaro itself.

For GM's sake, it had better blend well, and "Solstice Inspired" should not be an excuse for 1990's bubble styling. Personally I would have preferred the Commodore as-is, with a twin port grille. I hope GM can pull it off, but their restyling efforts of the past have been mixed at best (no Aztek comments, please), and the G6 GXP show car with the huge elongated nostrils that GM went ahead with despite lots of negative feedback (at least from sites like GMInsideNews when the concept sketches were shown) does not give me much hope.

I would buy a Commodore with a Pontiac grille. I would not buy a Frankenstein-styled G8 that looks like a hybrid of a current Grand Prix and a Solstice up front. Something tells me to expect the latter. See the photo of the G6 GXP above for an idea of what I'm talking about. Blech.

Hence, GM pushes me ever farther away from Pontiac and its products, and into the arms of "import" styling that I seem to like so much.

The Definintive GM Performance Car List Part II: 1973-1985

This is a copy of a list compiled a few months back. See the original list with photos here: http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41165

The Definintive GM Performance Car List Part II: 1973-1985
Composed by Ming - with help from 87aero, MCGARRETT, EGG, T-Type, & More!
www.GMinsidenews.com
11-27-06

1973-1985 The Forgotten Years of GM Performance

With the 1973 Oil Crisis, Disco Vans, dramatic downsizing of cars and horsepower, and the generally accepted "End of the Muscle Car Era", the casual (or younger) GM fan might ask if there was anything worth noting from GM's performance stables during this time aside from the obvious pop-icons like "The Bandit" Trans Am. We decided to tackle this question, and hope you enjoy this flashback as much as we did!

This is the second in a series of lists that cover performance cars of note from GM within a certain timeframe. Initially the list grew out of a concern of mine that Japanese and European cars seemed to dominate video games such as Gran Turismo with an array of choices in several car classes for cars produced in the last two to three decades. GM's offerings in such games were (and still are) often limited to muscle cars from the 1960's and mostly Camaros and Corvettes since, with a smattering of concept cars that never made it to production. Most conspicuous is the dead gap of virtually no other performance-trim cars from GM from the 1970's until 2000. This has only recently begun to change in respect to newer cars like the Cobalt, GTO and some Cadillacs getting in to games, but the 1970-2000 GM cars (aside from 'Vettes and Camaros) remain mostly lost to the past.

This list is also an attempt to expand the conciousness of what was "GM Performance", and I'd like to include your suggestions, including GM's close-to-stock racing efforts, and "tuner house" developed models during these model years.

It's also a challenge to the gaming industry, Hollywood, and GM's own Marketing & PR people to not forget these cars to the mists of time. Even the not-so-famous and not-so-powerful models. After all, if such "beasts" as the 1972 Honda Life Step Van, or 1985 Honda TODAY can make it into the mega-selling game Gran Turismo 4, surely the capable and sporty (if not rip-snorting) Chevrolet Spirit of America Vega Coupe, or the Buick Nighthawk deserve to pop up as obscure vehicle choices in some game somewhere, someday? When presented with 10 or more in-game cars from Toyota from the 1980's and virtually nothing from GM, what will young minds conclude? My guess? That GM had nothing to offer back then, and has always been a one-trick 1960's muscle car pony, thus the hype about the return of the Camaro. Last but not least, one must not forget that Japan Domestic Market cars like the Nissan Skyline and the 1980's Corolla Trueno Sprinter AE86 only became household names for GenY largely because of exposure from video games and anime.

Well, I think this list and the FIRST LIST prove that GM has had far more than Camarovette going for it from the early 70's to 2000. And I hope you'll agree!

Note:While "definitive" it is by no means "complete". Please feel free to suggest more, but keep in mind I am not trying to "fill out" the list with every possible variation and model year of a particular car. It's more of a short and sweet list of the hot stuff from GM. The original idea of this list was to not have much redundancy among model years (little change between years) and between brands (rebadges), and no concept cars or trucks (to be covered in other lists). If you have something very different from what's listed here, though, by all means let us know! There are a few brands below that could use some more models to flesh them out. I'll update it over time with your suggestions as they fit. See the original discussion that built this list HERE.

Enough talk, on to the Cars!

Chevrolet

1973 Monte Carlo 454
1973 Scuncio Chevrolet Vega +
1973 Yenko Stinger Vega
1973 Chevelle SS
1974 Vega Coupe w/ Spirit of America Package
1974 Nova Hatchback Coupe w/ Spirit of America Package
1974 454 Baldwin Motion Super Vega +
1974 Impala 454 V8 w/ Spirit of America Package
1974 Cosworth Vega +
1974 Chevelle Laguna S3
1974 Camaro Z/28 w/ D88 stripes
1975 Corvette Convertible
1976 Cosworth Vega 5 speed +
1976 Allan Moffat Monza IMSA GT-Class *
1976 Camaro LT Rally Sport
1976 Chevette Rally 1.6
1977 Nova Rally Coupe LM1 350
1977 Camaro Z/28
1977 Vega GT
1977 Monza Mirage
1978 El Camino SS LM1 350/4-speed
1979 Monte Carlo V8
1979 Monza Spyder
1979 Malibu M80 +
1980 Monte Carlo Turbo
1980 Camaro Z/28
1980 Monte Carlo Sport Coupe w/Turbo
1981 X11
1982 Z/28 Indy 500 Pace Car
1981 Citation 660 Turbo +
1983 Malibu 9C1
1983 Monte Carlo SS
1984 Camaro Z/28 L69 H.O.
1985 Cavalier Z24 Hatchback
1985 Corvette TPI 350
1985 Camaro IROC-Z28
1985 X11 2.8 MPFI
1985 Monte Carlo SS Turbo

Buick:

1973 Century GS
1977 Nighthawk
1978 Regal Sport Coupe
1979 LeSabre Sport Coupe
1979 Century Turbo Coupe
1979 Riviera S-Type
1982 Grand National w/Turbo option
1983 T-Type
1984 Grand National T-Type
1984 Regal T-Type
1985 Riviera T-Type


Oldsmobile:

1973 Cutlass 4-4-2
1979 Cutlass Hurst/Olds 350 W-30 +
1980 Ken Snyder Racing Starfire GT Solo II "G" Stock *
1980 Cutlass Calais 4-4-2 W-30
1983 Cutlass Calais Hurst/Olds 15th Anniversary +

Pontiac:

1973 Trans Am SD
1973 Grand Am 455
1973 GTO
1974 Firebird Formula SD
1974 Ventura GTO
1975 Grandville 455
1977 Trans Am W72
1977 Cam Am W72 400
1977 Special Edition Trans Am L78 400
1979 Phoenix LJ Coupe
1980 Trans Am Turbo
1980 Grand Am Coupe
1981 Trans Am H.O. 5.0 litre
1981 Trans Am "Bandit" 462 V8
1983 Trans Am Daytona 500 Pace Car 5-SPD
1983 6000 STE
1984 Fiero
1984 Trans Am 15th Anniversary Edition
1984 Sunbird GT Turbo
1985 Fiero 2.8L V6 GT Notchback
1985 Trans Am TPI LB9 V8

Cadillac

1985 Eldorado Touring Coupe

Holden

1973 HQ Monaro GTS 308ci/350ci Coupe
1974 HJ Monaro GTS 308ci Sedan
1973 LJ Torana GTR-XU1 "Bathurst Edition"
1973 HQ GTS Monaro 350 Chevy V8 Coupe
1974 LH Torana SLR-5000 'L34' 308ci
1975 LJ Torana GTR-XU1 202ci
1976 HZ GTS Sedan 308ci
1976 HX Monaro GTS 4-door
1977 HX Monaro Limited Edition Coupe
1977 LX Torana SS 'A9X' 308ci
1979 Peter Brock A9X Torana (Bathurst Winner) *
1980 HDT VC Commodore SL/E 308ci + +
1982 HDT VH Commodore Group 3 308ci +
1983 Gemini TG S/LX
1984 VK Commodore 5.0L
1985 VK Commodore HDT Brock SS group A +


Opel

1973 GT
1973 Bitter CD +
1974 Gianni Mussato GT Gruppe 4 *
1977 Manta Irmscher 2800
1982 Manta GT/E
1984 Manta I 240
1984 Manta GSI Exklusiv
1985 Manta i300
1985 Bitter SC Coupe +

Vauxhall

1973 HP Firenza
1974 Gerry Marshall DTV Firenza *
1975 Heikki Haaksiala Magnum Rally Coupé *
1976 Magnum Sportshatch
1978 Risto Virtanen Chevette Rally 2300 HS *
1980 Chevette HSR