Bob Lutz Discusses Park Avenue! "Ming" & GMInsidenews Make National TV!

Many thanks to John McElroy of Autoline Detroit!

Wow. Watch as Mr. Bob Lutz gives a great, lengthy response to my question on the Park Avenue and hints at a "Return to true Luxury" for Buick. Download the video HERE!, about 14:45 minutes in. - Ming

Quote: "We are studying the low volume import (of the Park Avenue)....and reestablish the Buick Flagship. It would return Buick truly to the Luxury Class."

Also note that the Chinese SLS is mentioned by Matt Delorenzo of Road and Track. And Bob Lutz mentions his future with GM. Bob also did not gush about the Super Buicks. He was very straightforward and didn't spin at all. It was an interview well worth the wait, I think!

According to John McElroy's opening this week, Autoline Detroit's Server crashed last week under the load of all of the people going to see the "Extra" video clip that did not end up including Bob Lutz' comments on the Park Avenue. But the guys at Blue Sky Productions more than made up for that by broadcasting the show live, mentioning GMInsideNews (and my screen-name) to anyone with the Speed TV cable channel nationwide!

Bob Lutz Replies to my Park Avenue Question on Autoline Detroit "Extra"

A couple of days ago I sent viewer mail to Autoline Detroit, a TV show that I have permanently Tivo'd on the Speed Channel. Thanks to John McElroy, my question directed to Mr. Lutz was asked during his interview!  I originally posted this at GMInsideNews.com, and Autoblog later picked it up.

Reply from John McElroy of Autoline Detroit TV:

I got to ask Mr. Lutz your question, but it will be in the “Extra” section that we post on our website, not in the broadcast version.


Link to the "Extra" section (Internet Broadcast): http://www.autolinedetroit.tv

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Question that I sent (note I tried to avoid getting a stock "we can't discuss future product" answer):

From: ******@yahoo.com(edited to avoid spam mail)
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 6:10 PM
To: viewermail@autolinedetroit.tv
Subject: A Question to ask Mr. Lutz if you will

Mr. McElroy,

As of now there are 527 Replies and 31,801( ! ) views on the Chinese Park Avenue thread at this GM enthusiast forum:  http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47787

Please ask Mr. Lutz his straight opinion (even if he can't tell us when or if it is coming to the USA) on this car that was recently shown at the Shanghai Auto Show. We just want to hear what he thinks of it, and what he thinks of the lackluster reaction to the "Super" LaCrosse and Lucerne models by comparison.

Thanks,

- "Ming" Staff Member of GMInsidenews.com

One of the hottest car brands in China? Try Buick!

Where have all the Hot Buick Sedan Designers Gone, Long time passing?

Where have all the Buick Designers Gone, Long time ago?

Where have all the Buick Designers Gone, Gone to China Every One,

When will they ever learn, (to stop focusing on SUV's, Trucks & Crossovers in Detroit)

When will they ever learn?

Well, they've gone to China, as evidenced in most of the excellent-looking Buick of China lineup. The snippet of article below backs that up:

Source: http://autos.canada.com/

One of the hottest car brands in China? Try Buick!

Yes, Buick, that old fogey U.S. brand that even spokesman Tiger Woods can't seem to cure of its old man smell. In China, Buick might as well be BMW, although the Germans are here in force, too.

To add to the weird factor, while General Motors has opted for nonsensical names for its Buick models in North America, it's kept its mojo in China. So, instead of lame names such as the Canadian-built LaCrosse (deemed so naughty a name in Quebec that GM had to rebadge it Allure for Canadian buyers), the Chinese get the Park Avenue and the Regal, a lower midmarket sedan called the Excelle and a large family wagon called the GL8. (A Chinese-built version of the LaCrosse is here as a Camry fighter.)

Buick may have lost its history in the U.S., where the brand is down to just two sedans and some sluggish-selling SUV models, but it's a force in China. After selling just 19,826 units in China in 1999, sales have soared to more than 250,000 and are estimated to have totalled 303,000 in 2006.

This year, barring a miracle comeback in the U.S., Buick China will easily outsell the U.S. market. If it's embarrassing to the Detroit brass, they are certainly putting on brave faces.
"Buick's already bigger here in China than in the U.S. That doesn't bother me at all," said Rick Wagoner, GM's chairman and chief executive, at the Shanghai show. "I think it is one of those things that doing well in China has actually enhanced the viability of Buick in the U.S."
Unlike in North America, where the Buick lineup, resources and dealer lineup have shrunk pretty much in lockstep, GM and its 50/50 Chinese partner are pumping money into Buick as a Chinese luxury brand.

One of the showstoppers in Shanghai was the Buick Riviera coupe concept car. Complete with gullwing doors and engineering to fit a new Chinesemade hybrid system slated for production in 2008, the car was notable for where and how it made its return after an eightyear absence for the Riviera name.

Sure, GM may have sold 1.1 million of them between 1963 and 1999, but it took a Chinese joint venture to (apparently) give it new life.

Buick Fans in North America Demand New Chinese Park Avenue

Once the Chinese Park Avenue debuted at the Shanghai Motor Show 2007, it was only a matter of time before word, and plenty of photos, made their way around the world. This is the age of the Internet, after all. GM can't just launch a new vehicle in secret and hope no one over here in America will notice that Buick in China is getting vastly better-looking cars than the frumpy U.S. market LaCrosse and boring, if not as ugly Lucerne. GM Execs would no doubt point to the elegant Enclave, but even the Enclave looks like just another me-too GM crossover for upper middle class soccer moms when compared to the luxury of the Chinese Park Avenue.

GM Fans have raised a ruckus about the virtual dead silence from Rick Wagoner, Ed Welburn, and Bob Lutz regarding the almost stealth introduction of the Park Avenue in China. Their comments can be seen by the HUNDREDS at:

GM Inside News forums HERE and HERE - where the outrage and demands began.

A Poll over at the Jalopnik Car Blog HERE - where thousands of votes were cast and the overwhelming majority of support was for GM to bring the Park Avenue here

The GM Fast Lane Blog HERE where a post about Chevy's minicars was hijacked - see the posts about mid-way down.

Take a look at the photos of the Park Avenue and its no wonder that GM fans in North America feel angry and confused. China was once a market of GM leftovers like old Chevy Blazers long past their prime. Now it seems the reverse, where Buick in America gets such "stunners" as the Terraza minivan with a whale-mouth grille of black plastic and unattractive body lines, while China gets the GL8 with projector-style headlamps or the Chinese LaCrosse that looks nothing like the 1996 Riviera-inspired American version.

Buick fans have every right to be mad, and I hope they continue to take their case to Wagoner and Co. , and don't allow this car to be ignored, explained away, or forgotten by the big wigs in Michigan's headquarters. The American Buick fans still left to the withering brand deserve better.

For now, expect this trend to continue: http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47833

Buick of North America slides, as Shanghai GM's fortunes rise...perhaps this is the way that Bob and Rick want it? "Buickman" seems to think so, see: http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47760

GMI Goes to China: Ming's Trip and Observations

Wrote this last fall - see the original post with photos here: http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38295

GMI Goes to China: Ming's Trip and Observations
www.GMInsidenews.com
10/5/06

Recently I had the opportunity to travel to China for a few weeks. Although I was much too busy to take a trip to the local Buick, Chevrolet or Cadillac dealers there, I knew it would be a good chance to get more up close photos of cars like the Buick GL8 or Wuling vans that we usually only see in stock photos. With the intention of buying a new Chinese camera as soon as possible, I looked forward to the opportunity to catch a few shots for GMInsidenews and maybe find a magazine or two to rip scans from.

I arrived in Guangzhou, a large city along the Pearl River (also the name of a decent local beer), not far to the north of Hong Kong. Despite my screen name, I'm not Chinese. This wasn't a "back to roots" trip or something, but a trip for personal reasons. That said, I have lived in Asia in the past for a substantial part of my life (specifically Japan), but China did take me by surprise.

The stereotypical images of Mao Zedong portraits posted on buildings is far from the reality in Guangzhou. I didn't see a single one. No sign of Communism, control or censorship aside from the blacked out CNN report critical of Mao (blackout right after the narrator said "Critics say Mao Zedong was responsible for killing millions...") during the last day of my stay. Oh, and the occasional group of 6-10 marching troops not far from my hotel, who I never saw anywhere else in the city. Capitalism is in full swing in Guangzhou, which is constantly replacing old architecture with new Western-style buildings. Parts of the city look just like areas of Tokyo I'm familiar with, like Shibuya or Akihabara. Clean and fresh, with colorful advertisements covering the sides of buildings and Chinese pop music blaring from speakers or large screen videos.

There is plenty of old culture that survives, however, reminding you that you're in China. Restaurants with snakes, turtles and other creatures I couldn't identify in aquariums might have up to six young women standing outside, calling customers in, wearing colorful traditional Chinese dresses. Or small tea shops with stunningly beautiful teahouse waitresses in traditional clothing, serving umpteen varieties of flavorful tea in a very Chinese way (as opposed to the Japanese way I'm used to seeing). One sip and you'll never want to drink Lipton or Celestial Seasonings again.

Take a wrong turn and you'll find yourself in a narrow street with dilapidated buildings that look like they've been standing for at least 100 years, with crumbling traditional Chinese brickwork and old women cutting the heads off live chickens in the street.

The city of Guangzhou is a vibrant, bustling place, full of the hopes and dreams of small-time entrepreneurs and capitalists unleashed. But the air is terrible. A cloud of pollution hangs over the city like a morning mist that never leaves. Breathing it in the open for extended periods made me feel like I had food poisoning until I learned that it was the air, not the food or water that was making me sick. And that brings me (finally, some of you will say) to the transportation itself.

Motorcycles are on the way out in Guangzhou, soon to be banned from the city limits due to the emissions their 20-30 year old engines belch out. Bicycles, contrary to the stereotype, are not the main means of transport. Cars and Vans rule the streets of Guangzhou, and if they don't at the moment, they will as soon as the motorcycle ban is in place. Public transportation is similar to in parts of Japan, with a smooth-running, modern subway system, and buses.

And when I mention vans specifically, I don't say it lightly. Those of you who know me well on this site will know that I love small vans like the Nissan Elgrand or Vauxhall Vivaro. I just love vans in general, and if I could I'd have a 4-cylinder van for daily use, and a big GM van for the weekends. If I ever end up working / living in China, you can bet I'll be getting me a small boxy van. Its an illogical obsession of mine, I'll admit.

The vans in China are work-type vans, but I'd say they are a full third of what I saw on the road at any given time, not counting the Volkswagen taxis. The most common type of van is very similar to the Wuling van pictured below. SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile is a joint-venture between General Motors and Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation. OK, let me restate that. The van below in a stripper form is what I saw most commonly. I got a kick out of a fully pimped-out Wuling van, though (above). I want one!

The other side of Guanzhou is the cars, so many of which are luxury cars. An alarming number. Outside my rather pricey (for Chinese standards) hotel were BMWs, Mercedes, Lexuses, Nissans and a few Chinese Buick LaCrosse sedans. Many had window curtains and deeply tinted windows. A man in Guangzhou who speaks English told me: "20 years ago, to get 3 beautiful women, you needed to have a motorcycle. Today, you need a BMW."

Buick has a strong presence in China, as anyone who follows the global auto trends knows. I saw it up close and personal. I must say that overall, the Buick cars in China have a richer appeal than the ones in the U.S. that look more like they belong in a rental fleet. Even the lowly GM Daewoo built Buicks have an air of luxury around them in the details. Where the Suzuki Forenza or Chevrolet Optra might look a bit mid-pack mainstream, the Buick Excelle appears to use the right combination of chrome, more detailed body panels, and attractive paint to achieve an overall impression of "money". The Excelle wagon revived my interest in wagons, and I again lament that I can't buy an inexpensive, Euro-styled, 4-cylinder wagon like this one from a traditional GM brand that lets me use my GM card earnings.

One of my favorite Chinese Buicks, was the GL8 Minivan. The Terraza should have been designed to look like this. Not like an Uplander with a gaping mouth of black plastic slats and an ugly, protruding shnoz. It doesn't try to look like an SUV, and I wonder if it wouldn't have been cheaper (and more effective) if GM North America had just restyled the front end of the old Venture/Montana to look more like this Chinese model. I looked inside one and it had the new CSV interior, and a fancy nav system that looked better than what I recall seeing here in the U.S.

But the car that just says what is right with Buick of China and what is wrong with Detroit's version is the LaCrosse. What a stunning design. I regret that I was unable to take a photo of the car, and I don't have a full front shot, so I'll use a stock photo for the front, and those I scanned from a Chinese magazine for the rest.

Chevrolet and Cadillac cars were harder to spot, but I did see some very attractive dealerships for both brands on the outskirts of the city. Unfortunately I was not able to stop in and take photos. The Aveo is heavily advertised in China, and I saw a few new Gentra-style Aveos in the streets. The Aveo TV ads were fun and just as fresh and "young" as the Toyota Yaris ads here in the States. Several of the ads I saw for the different GM brands struck me as better than the "lets rehash another song from the 1960's" ads for the U.S. brands.

All in all, China opened my eyes to the possibility of Buick as a potentially desireable brand in the U.S. But the product portfolio will need to change drastically to make that happen. No more W-bodies. No more 3800 chugger. No more Chevies with swapped out grilles like the Terraza. The Enclave is a good start, and actually resembles the Chinese LaCrosse in its styling cues.

China's car market and the potential for imported cars from China also made me hopeful that someday my dream for a small 4-cylinder van that isn't shaped like a spaceship or a wedge - but a fully utilitarian box with a good sized cargo area - might be realized someday. A GM-Wuling for my garage? Well, I can always dream...

See the photos here: http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38295